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| Is porting the Xandros 3 OCE Desktop to Gentoo a good idea? |
| What is gentoo? |
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18% |
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| Go for it. |
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34% |
[ 11 ] |
| Nah. |
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31% |
[ 10 ] |
| Can it be done? |
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15% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 32 |
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:05 pm Post subject: Xandros 3 Gentoo style |
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I´ve spent the past 2 weeks in Gentoo land and found some nice features:
emerge - Gentoo portage system; this is the equivalent apt-get and it compiles the latest source code making it easy.
tbz2 - Gentoo´s precompiled packages like Debian´s deb.
Linux Kernels - are updated regularily and components like nVidia or win4lin suppored are added as simple as typing emerge win4lin
Performance - Source code can be optomized for Pentium 4 or Athlon XP rather than just a generic i586.
There´s nothing wrong with Debian, it´s a nice stable distro for the office enviornment. Porting a cutting edge desktop like Xandros 3 OCE KDE to a cutting edge Gentoo base would make the ultimate platform for gamers or those who want to try the latest applications.
Why bother? Because we can! I believe it to be a viable project that may get good results.
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Last edited by aldube on Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mike80808
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Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 3891
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Xandros, and especially the Xandros-specific portions, aren't distributed in source form.
There is no source repository for the Xandros Networks repository, you need to ask Xandros for the source package directly, assuming you have the right to do so granted to you by the license for such software.
In short, I don't think you'll get very far with such a project, and when you get there, you'll realize that you've just really built a gentoo-like distribution based on Debian, and it won't have any of the special features that make it Xandros.
I don't see the point in spending a lot of effort trying to turn Xandros into something it isn't, when there are far better (and easier) starting points to choose from if you want to get to what you say you want to get to.
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Monster_user
Xanscended
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 3945
Location: Georgia U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Even if it isn't done from source code, I would be interested in knowing if it is even possible.
That is one thing I love about Linux, there is an unlimited amount of stuff to play with.
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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[quote=¨mike80808¨]Xandros, and especially the Xandros-specific portions, aren't distributed in source form.
There is no source repository for the Xandros Networks repository, you need to ask Xandros for the source package directly, assuming you have the right to do so granted to you by the license for such software. [/quote]
So what you´re saying is that ftp://ftp2.xandros.com/src/ isn´t any good?
Actually I was kind of hoping of building a Gentoo system with the cool Xandros Desktop thown in, so there would be no Debian components in it.
If there´s a problem with the source, maybe they can have some pre-compiled i586/i686 tbz2 packages availble instead.
At any rate it would exciting to see Xandros release a Xandros Gentoo Edition a year down the road; I know I would buy it just for the convinience of a quick and easy install & setup.
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Last edited by aldube on Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Monster_user wrote: | Even if it isn't done from source code, I would be interested in knowing if it is even possible.
That is one thing I love about Linux, there is an unlimited amount of stuff to play with. |
Sure this could be one of those proof of concept projects for Xandros enthusists to put together and will probably end up as a marketable product when it´s completed. This would be as fun as beta testing.
I´m sure if source code is a problem; they can probably realease precompiled i586/i686 tbz2 packages.
Xandros can still make money both ways Xandros on Debian or Xandros on Gentoo nothing like giving people a choice.
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judyz
Xendrosian
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 1243
Location: Brantford Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Any project that any user wants to undertake that does not break the license agreement (as in not reselling it as your own version with Xandros applications in it) is a great idea.
Experimentation could lead to some great new advancements. Xandros came about because a team of folks were willing to mess around with Debian to try and make a more user friendly OS. It is only fitting that Xandros users feel free to experiement on their machines with the Xandros OS. As long as we all remember...
1) This is not for NEWBIES! If you are new to Xandros don't even think about attempting this. It can and will add to the difficulty of learning a new OS. Completely remove the idea from your mind. You will thank me.
2) In the process of experimenting you can and will break your install frequently. That is the nature of the game. In doing so you lose all rights to complain about it. Anyone who comes in here complaining that your Xandros doesn't work after you altered it and I will kick you in the (__)(__) Consider yourselves warned 
3) None of this should be attempted on the computer you use day to day and rely on for email and such. If you do when you break it and end up losing months of emails, browser favourites, documents and such after subjecting you to a wicked laugh  I will point you to this post and say I told you so 
4) Since you started out from the starting point of Xandros which was the product of years of hard work it is only fair that you share any "great discoveries" with the Xandros team. Who knows your new feature might get included in the next release. Now that would be cool.
That's it. Go forth and break'eth thine systems. Just make sure you come back and tell us all about it. 
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Judyz
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.
Xandros 4 Premium and Every Other OS I Can Get.
Ontario, Canada
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matty
Xendrosian
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 1378
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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thats the craziest thing i've heard  |
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davidalun
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 2172
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| matty wrote: | | your all nuts |
Matt - I think that says it exactly. 
Dave
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Xandos 1, 2, 3, 4 ... and now PCLOS. |
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matty
Xendrosian
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 1378
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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damn, you got to it before i edited. I didnt mean your "all nuts" but thats a crazy idea  |
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I got 4 computers; and one of these is just for experimenting with Linux. This would be a great learning experience for enthusists and Xandros.
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Last edited by aldube on Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Monster_user
Xanscended
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 3945
Location: Georgia U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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CrAzY !?@$*)
 Crazy Golf Club.jpg
Sorry to undo all your hard work Matty, but somebody has too.
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davidalun
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 2172
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| matty wrote: | | damn, you got to it before i edited. I didnt mean your "all nuts" but thats a crazy idea |
No- I think you got it right the first time
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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How many of you guys have actually tried Gentoo?
If yous don´t want to install Gentoo from scratch http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2005.0/handbook-x86.xml?style=printable&full=1 then give Gentoo based Vida Linux a try http://desktop.vidalinux.com/
What makes Gentoo so great is its easy updates & source code is so easy to compile in Gentoo that even a Linux newbie can do it.
What do Debian & Gentoo have in common?
They are both partners on the Hurd kernel project.
The way I figure it; Xandros probably wont make Gentoo based Xandros OS if we just ask for it; however, Xandros may develop an interest in Gentoo if we have a team enthusists that are willing to work on it.
It´s Proof of Concept Project meaning it´s not going to have a nice GUI installer to begin with, as everything would have to be installed manually the Gentoo way. The point of the project is to get it up and running, then Xandros can finnish it off with a official installation CD & nice GUI installer.
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mike80808
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Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 3891
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I'd forgotten about that. It's gotten bigger since I first started pestering Xandros for their GPL'd sources back for Xandros 1.0. That's a good start. You might find the odd missing package, but I'm sure all you need to do is ask them to put it up. Also, you'll find stuff that's not quite what you get with Xandros. For example, the kdeutils source package includes kwalletmanager, but the Xandros binary package doesn't. That's why I back-ported the KDE 3.3.2 kwalletmanager and kdeutils package. I couldn't find that package because I didn't think to look there, and it wasn't on the KDE and Debian sites anymore.
But it still won't have the proprietary licensed stuff in Xandros or the Xandros-built stuff. i.e. XFM, XN, installer, etc.
| aldube wrote: | | Actually I was kind of hoping of building a Gentoo system with the cool Xandros Desktop thown in, so there would be no Debian components in it. |
Won't happen. The Xandros desktop (mainly XFM), the Xandros KDM, XN, switch user, hardware autodetect, partition resizing, etc. are all Xandros-proprietary, and we'll probably never see the source for those packages.
| aldube wrote: | | If there´s a problem with the source, maybe they can have some pre-compiled i586/i686 tbz2 packages availble instead. |
AFAIK, the binary packages for some key Xandros-specific applications (noted above) are only distributed via the Xandros CDs. As such, they are subject to the licensing terms, and granting you the right to create and/or distribute a derived work is not among them. But if they did happen to distribute them that way, you certainly could build a wrapper emerge script, similar to the way that the Microsoft fonts are installed in the msttcorefonts package.
| aldube wrote: | | At any rate it would exciting to see Xandros release a Xandros Gentoo Edition a year down the road; |
It certainly could happen, but I personally don't think it will.
| aldube wrote: | | I know I would buy it just for the convinience of a quick and easy install & setup. |
Downloading gobs of source and compiling is "quick and easy"? Why should 50,000 people have to compile the same package? Remember Xandros target market....
That said, they might toy with the idea for another "Technology Preview" or "Developer Edition" that was more tweaked out or flexible with respect to things like desktop choices, kernel experimentation, etc.
There are certainly a growing group of people that don't have much hesitancy or concerns with using the "Unsupported Debian Site" or the xandros.or.id and archlug repositories. They understand the risks, and so a "Developer Edition" or "Technology Preview" wouldn't be a huge support risk for Xandros, any more so than the UDS is currently. We're also not into Xandros because of the Windows migration path. We like it because we've decided that for ourselves, it's the best Debian-based distro around (however one judges "best").
And, not to underestimate that Xandros' flexibility in repository choice is one of the key (and IMHO, critical) differentiators from Linspire's offerings.
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| mike80808 wrote: | | aldube wrote: | | Actually I was kind of hoping of building a Gentoo system with the cool Xandros Desktop thown in, so there would be no Debian components in it. |
Won't happen. The Xandros desktop (mainly XFM), the Xandros KDM, XN, switch user, hardware autodetect, partition resizing, etc. are all Xandros-proprietary, and we'll probably never see the source for those packages.
| aldube wrote: | | If there´s a problem with the source, maybe they can have some pre-compiled i586/i686 tbz2 packages availble instead. |
AFAIK, the binary packages for some key Xandros-specific applications (noted above) are only distributed via the Xandros CDs. As such, they are subject to the licensing terms, and granting you the right to create and/or distribute a derived work is not among them. But if they did happen to distribute them that way, you certainly could build a wrapper emerge script, similar to the way that the Microsoft fonts are installed in the msttcorefonts package.
| aldube wrote: | | At any rate it would exciting to see Xandros release a Xandros Gentoo Edition a year down the road; |
It certainly could happen, but I personally don't think it will.
| aldube wrote: | | I know I would buy it just for the convinience of a quick and easy install & setup. |
Downloading gobs of source and compiling is "quick and easy"? Why should 50,000 people have to compile the same package? Remember Xandros target market.... |
Wow; you´re a real pessimist. Did you read all the posts up to this one before you typed all this?
1. There is a Gentoo packaging system tbz2 that do not require compiling; so these could be made to install just as fast as any deb packages. The compiling feature would be for those who want the latest applications not available as debs.
2. The goal of this proposed Proof of Concept Project is to encourage Xandros in thinking seriously about making a Xandros Gentoo Edition.
3. I think we need to let Xandros Team think about the potential here and let them decide for themselves. After all you´re not the Xandros offical spokesman.
4. Who knows Xandros may even off a beta tester package those of use that want to do this. All we can do is wait and see. 
Anything that helps Xandros OS grow can´t be a bad thing.
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