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NunyaBidness
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 121
Location: Memphis, Tennessee, United States of America
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 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject: 2.6.14 Linux Kernel |
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I was looking at the Linux kernel headquarters and I noticed two new versions of the kernel 2.6.14 and a newer 2.6.15.
I was wondering if either of these would be safe to install to my Xandros computer??
Glenn Condrey
aka
NunyaBidness
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Arne Anka
Xanspiration
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 4186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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The lates officially released kernel is 2.6.13.4. The others you mentioned are still in development and not stable yet.
If you have not compiled (you must compile it your self for Xandros) and installed a linux kernel before, I don't recomend it (you will most likely break your system in that stuff that worked before, does not work anymore).
I believe we will see a new Xandros version soon with a new kernel, so no reason to hurry.
Last edited by Arne Anka on Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jimallyn
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 8195
Location: Wenatchee, Washington, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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As I understand it, if you are a real expert, you can set your system up to boot to any one of a number of different kernels. So, at least in theory, you could install the new kernel AND keep your old kernel.
HOWEVER, my guess is that the average person would totally trash their system attempting this. I personally would not try it.
You might want to have a look at the following threads:
http://forums.xandros.com/viewtopic.php?t=18103
http://forums.xandros.com/viewtopic.php?t=16952
http://forums.xandros.com/viewtopic.php?t=16782
If you do attempt a kernel upgrade, let us know how it goes either way.
Jim
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Arne Anka
Xanspiration
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 4186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jimallyn wrote: | | As I understand it, if you are a real expert, you can set your system up to boot to any one of a number of different kernels. So, at least in theory, you could install the new kernel AND keep your old kernel. |
That's true in the general case if you look e.g. at Debian or other free distributions. But Xandros has made that part a bit harder (not saying its impossible, just a bit harder). Just to make an initrd for the new kernel can be a chalange in itself in Xandros (at least in X2, have not tried in X3). You also need to recompile all comercial drivers (like NVIDIA and ATI) as well.
Furthermore you can't take an arbitrary precompiled binary from other distros and install it on Xandros, you have to compile it your self.
However, if you don't try you will never learn and breaking your system is part of the learning curve. Right.  |
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rbmorse
Xandrosianding
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 638
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However, if you don't try you will never learn and breaking your system is part of the learning curve. Right. |
This is quite true and if you approach the project in that spirit you can indeed learn alot. In my case, more than I wanted to know...<g>.
If, however, you want to install a newer kernel and have it "just work" then the advice to wait until the integrators release a new version of Xandros is good advice.
You might also consider looking at other Linux distributions. Ubuntu (Gnome) and Kbuntu (KDE), for example, seem to be trying to develop a reputation as the distributions on the bleeding edge of progress whereas Xandros has always prized stability and reliability over the very latest version.
Other distributions lie at various points on the continium...look around and you may find a ready to install package that will let you explore a new kernel without having to do the compile process on your own.
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Arne Anka wrote: | That's true in the general case if you look e.g. at Debian or other free distributions. But Xandros has made that part a bit harder (not saying its impossible, just a bit harder). Just to make an initrd for the new kernel can be a chalange in itself in Xandros (at least in X2, have not tried in X3). You also need to recompile all comercial drivers (like NVIDIA and ATI) as well.
Furthermore you can't take an arbitrary precompiled binary from other distros and install it on Xandros, you have to compile it your self.
However, if you don't try you will never learn and breaking your system is part of the learning curve. Right. |
I agree with Arne Anka on this point, as installing and using other non-Xandros Linux kernels are harder with Xandros than other Linux distros. If you knew all the components (patches) that were applied to the Xandros kernel then it would be possible to replace it; however, no-one has released the secret chicken in the bucket recepie for the Xandros 3 kernel yet, as a result features are broken if you compile a non-Xandros 3 kernel. I did a lot experimenting in this area, so I know from experience; and making a replacement initrd for a non-Xandros 3 kernel is a pain.
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NunyaBidness
Xplorer
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 121
Location: Memphis, Tennessee, United States of America
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:18 pm Post subject: 2.6.14 Kernel |
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Bout the only thing I ever tried (and with trepidation.....if I break the system..instead of learning how to fix, I wipe everything out and do a reinstal,I reckon by my count I'm at reinstall #200 or so LOLl.) was to install the MEPIS kernel into Xandros 3.0 OCE. No difference in performance.
Thanks for the heads up. Guess I will try and be patient and wait for Xandros 4.0, although there WAS a Xandros 2.5.......
Glenn Condrey
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"Microsoft Windows has encountered a critical system error and must now shut down. Better get Bill Gate$ on the phone for this one..."
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Chaotic Thought
Xandrosianding
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 881
Location: Arlington TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Arne Anka wrote: | Just to make an initrd for the new kernel can be a chalange in itself in Xandros (at least in X2, have not tried in X3). You also need to recompile all comercial drivers (like NVIDIA and ATI) as well.
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This is not very complicated: You can use the supplied initial ramdisk as a template. Basically, make a copy to a new filename, such as initrd-2.6.14, then replace the modules that are inside with the modules that come from the 2.6.14 kernel (see below for a link to more detailed instructions).
| aldube wrote: | If you knew all the components (patches) that were applied to the Xandros kernel then it would be possible to replace it; however, no-one has released the secret chicken in the bucket recepie for the Xandros 3 kernel yet
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The changes are definitely not a secret (the GPL requires the changed version of the Linux kernel source to be available). One of the Xandros developers has a website (linked below) which contains all of the patches to the vanilla kernel that are needed to make it a "Xandros" kernel. Even if you don't use that site, you can still use diff to generate your own patches (this is the method I prefer). I gave a walkthrough on this topic in a previous article on this site (see below for the link).
Help on Creating New Kernel (Including how to modify the ramdisk)
http://forums.xandros.com/viewtopic.php?t=17125#97968
James's Xandros Patches (This site has a set of patches that are applied to the vanilla kernel to turn into a Xandros one.)
http://xandros.jammys.net/3.x/patches-2.6.9/
The Formula for Making a Xandros Linux Kernel (Includes information on generating your own patch file that will be able to "xandrosify" arbitrary kernel versions.)
http://forums.xandros.com/viewtopic.php?p=96689#96689 |
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Arne Anka
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Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 4186
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Chaotic Thought wrote: |
This is not very complicated: You can use the supplied initial ramdisk as a template. Basically, make a copy to a new filename, such as initrd-2.6.14, then replace the modules that are inside with the modules that come from the 2.6.14 kernel (see below for a link to more detailed instructions).
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A valid point. But a noob may need a good step by step instruction to overcome those small differences from the "general" way to compile and install kernels.
Another cavet in X2 was that LILO was regenerated at each boot overwriting any manual settings. The trick there was to remove the execution permission of /sbin/fooze. |
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I tried the diff method and all that happened is I ended up with a broken kernel that wouldn't compile; however, it was kind of fun to play around with; the 2.6.9 to 2.6.12 Linux kernels were propably not the best Linux kernel candidates to use diff with.
As for the following site; this is the 1st time I've seen any mention of it, as I did a lot of searching with no luck.
At any rate we need a detailed how-to-build-a-Xandros-how-to in The Lab for those who need details.
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Chaotic Thought
Xandrosianding
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 881
Location: Arlington TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| aldube wrote: | I tried the diff method and all that happened is I ended up with a broken kernel that wouldn't compile; however, it was kind of fun to play around with; the 2.6.9 to 2.6.12 Linux kernels were propably not the best Linux kernel candidates to use diff with.
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diff can be used with any kernel; it shows the differences between two sets of files. It does not modify the kernel, so I don't understand why it would have caused the kernel to "break" as it did for you. If you post the exact commands that you used, perhaps someone can help solve the problem.
| aldube wrote: | | At any rate we need a detailed how-to-build-a-Xandros-how-to in The Lab for those who need details. |
I think this topic has been addressed in the www.xandros.com documentation (Faq) section. There are also some howtos in the forums already. What is wrong with those?
| aldube wrote: | | As for the [xandros.jammys.net] site; this is the 1st time I've seen any mention of it, as I did a lot of searching with no luck. |
This site is mentioned in the FAQ of www.xandros.com (Where to find additional help). Here is a link to the exact article:
http://support.xandros.com/kb-view.php?topic=53 |
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaotic Thought wrote: | | diff can be used with any kernel; it shows the differences between two sets of files. It does not modify the kernel, so I don't understand why it would have caused the kernel to "break" as it did for you. If you post the exact commands that you used, perhaps someone can help solve the problem. |
Oh ya; you're playing dumb now; I believe it was you that suggested creating a diff file to patch later kernels, but your trick doesn't always work.
| Chaotic Thought wrote: | I think this topic has been addressed in the www.xandros.com documentation (Faq) section. There are also some howtos in the forums already. What is wrong with those?
This site is mentioned in the FAQ of www.xandros.com (Where to find additional help). Here is a link to the exact article: |
Your links seem to be irrelevent or insufficient for the goal of this particular topic.
If you know anything then produce a detailed command line how-to example otherwise save your ego & lack of detailed information for someone else as I'm not interested in it; some people are all talk and no action. We need a complete how-to for compiling a Xandros kernel from scratch that won't disable Xandros features using patches & how to create a proper initrd as the diff method just doesn't cut-it for those wanting to use the 2.6.14 & 2.6.15 kernels.
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mike80808
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Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 3891
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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diff patches should be available from kernel.org and other places.
You should try applying them to the Xandros source.
No doubt, you will be responsible for resolving the conflicts and figuring out if the patch is the same fix from Xandros or supplements it, and what the correct merge of the two patch sets are.
But on the good side, the changes may not be drastic where they conflict. This is exactly what I did when back-porting the kdeutils from the later KDE release to Xandros (kdeutils didn't exist at the time X3 was released).
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Chaotic Thought
Xandrosianding
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 881
Location: Arlington TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| aldube wrote: | Your links seem to be irrelevent or insufficient for the goal of this particular topic.
If you know anything then produce a detailed command line how-to example otherwise save your ego & lack of detailed information for someone else... |
The links are relevant to the topic (the question was about the kernel). And this is "the lab" so expirementing should be expected by the posters and readers. By the way, diff is not a method, it is just a tool to produce a patch. Another tool called patch will apply the patches to the kernel.
You said that I'm "all talk and no action", but that is what this forum is for. The actions should be initiated by the interested parties. I'm interested in Linux and compiling kernels, and I am happy to share the information I have that might be useful, but maintaining a complete how-to on the topic is a bit much for me. A lack of action? Perhaps that's true, but it's not as simple as you make it sound. Writing it would involve more time, more questions, and it lacks the interactive nature. Plus, I'd be a bit concerned at some users; perhaps the users who manage to break their kernel by using diff might mistaken such a how-to as a substitute for real research and "action". |
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aldube
Xandrosianschwing
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 2332
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Chaotic Thought wrote: | | I'm interested in Linux and compiling kernels, and I am happy to share the information I have that might be useful, but maintaining a complete how-to on the topic is a bit much for me. |
Finally; a little bit of honesty, as long as the method if you want to call it that stays in this forum (The Lab) and is not placed in the tips & ticks forum it wont need much maintaining and you may even find others willing to share tips and information as well.
Not everything works under a cookie cutter approach; however, everyone has to start somewhere and that's what specific examples are used for; breaking stuff and learning is what the The Lab is about; simply posting "I know how todo it but don't want to be responsible for other people breaking their kernels" defeats the purpose of what this forum (The Lab) was created for.
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